Lowland League: Spartans 0-2 Bonnyrigg Rose Saturday 14th November, 3pm. Shamelessly rip-er, I mean 'inspired' by Goc's Zulus vs Spartans thread. Now, with that out of the way, we can get to the question in hand. Cetashwayo, your name implies a certain level of bias, although I see you did pick the Spartans in the end. Oktober 2020 ybruelhart. It has been claimed that the Spartan elite had grown so small that it avoided fighting whenever possible. But there’s a reason they were dropped in favor of superior armies. Response to Round 1: The Spartans win. While they could easily fight at melee the Zulu tactical strategy consisted of two sides, the crests, extending in a sort of pincer formation to outrun the reloading musketmen. Sooooo do the Spartans have cavalry and do the Zulu's have guns? Two crew members sat in tandem beneath an extensively-glazed canopy, and the main units of the tailwheel undercarriage were retractable. (where you have to aim higher due to the arch motion it has). I'll assume these are all heavy infantry, right? This is probably the only worthwhile post in this thread. Spartans vs Zulus I thought OP was referring to Greek Spartans...from Sparta. Parnon (1,935 m). Soccer Shop Challenge Cup Second Round: East Stirlingshire 3-4 Spartans (Meekison x 3, Jones) Match Report Much of ancient Spartan history is written by non-spartan Greeks and other foreigners, as Spartans themselves outlawed books and record keeping. Sparta beco… Ancient Sparta was built on the banks of the Eurotas River, the largest river of Laconia, which provided it with a source of fresh water.The valley of the Eurotas is a natural fortress, bounded to the west by Mt. The problem with the Zulu is that the Bulls' horns tactics are not designed for fighting at melee. You must log in or register to reply here. This has got to be the most polarized Who would win thread without bringing up Kal-el vs. kakarot. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Zulus Vs Spartans? Generalversammlung 2020. Just because I enjoy reading about the Zulus doesn't mean I'll ignore objective fact. Now, Spartans fighting Persians, weakly protected like, I don't know, ZULUS, can mow through them. Infanticide was a disturbingly common act in the ancient world, but in Sparta this practice was organized and managed by the state. Alexandrian Pikemen might be better, but I think Spartans are more classically Greek. While the Spartans were the best drilled and trained of the Greek hoplites, they were still hugely limited in what they could accomplish. Spartans 4's haven't had their backs against the walls yet which I'd love to see.Most SPARTAN-IVs went through the Human-Covenant War running and dying by the billions while the Twos and Threes were comfortable behind their advanced battle armor. Add in the Impis range and mobility, and the Spartans would have huge difficulty maintaining their tactical cohesion simply trying to engage...and it would go straight out the window once the Impis started to attack from the flanks and the rear. In short, Zulu Impis are a nightmare engagement. Philip II ravaged and conquered his surrounding Greek city-states by taking the Thebian phalanx (which was itself copied by the Spartans) and adding light infantry and cavalry to help with flanking/encirclement tactics that the Spartans were so awful at dealing with. I'd say the true figure is a lot closer to 20k, with an additional 4,000 breaking off -agaisnt Cetashwayo's orders- to move on Rorke's Drift. The Zulus were a conscript army, wore no armour and were relatively poorly armed. Spartans.cz. The subject of Spartans has been much discussed and showcased in the realm of popular culture. If the two armies were to close the Spartans would win but the Samuarai would never be stupid enough to allow it. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Sparta is located in the region of Laconia, in the south-eastern Peloponnese. I disagree with most of this, and I don't see how anyone can reasonably think that the Spartans had better technology. https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/spacebattles-merchandise.398032/. The SPARTAN-V Program was the fifth generation of the SPARTAN Program, activated in early 2568, and overseen by Doctor Vincent Kaiser.In order for Vincent's vision of creating the perfect soldier to become a reality, the program utilized methods from Project CHRYSANTHEMUM in order to make Spartan-IVs on par with the Spartan-IIs. Hoplites, including Spartans, really only trained for a single type of battle: head-on engagements with other hoplites. In this tug-of-war, casual defense game, you play Leonidas who is the hero-king of Sparta, against hordes of attacking zombies in Thermopylae. Cookies help us deliver our Services. The Battle High Mission. By the mid 17'th century they are glorified bodyguards. At the age of seven, a Spartan boy was taken from his household and placed under the control of the state. Come join our discussions, post your own battles and kick some ass! The Zulus stomp. Sometime prior to the public iteration of the SPARTAN-IV program, ONI Section III authorized a top secret, experimental phase of the program, without direct permission from High Command. The 300 Spartans were a minority of the defending force – not just in the army but even in the last stand – but the clash became the battle of the Spartan 300, not the Greek 7,000, in popular imagination. Zulu weapons, on the other hand, were made from stone (albeit very hard stone), wood, and teeth. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the whowouldwin community. The Battle High Mission is to equip and empower the leaders of tomorrow with the disciplines of academic excellence and social responsibility. “The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many, and before this battle was over, even a god-king can bleed.” —King Leonidas, 300; the film adaptation of the Battle of Thermopylae. I discount the use of the Martini-Henry rifles because the Zulu's simply didn't have enough men that knew how to use them, but as long as they kept their distance, they could slowly whittle the Spartans down with other ranged weapons like catapults and cannon. They were not trained to pivot, or to change their battle plan once it had begun. and it was easy for many of the Zulu's to get very close to the British lines. 18. 1. Assuming the handwaving of surprise they will most likely begin flinging their spears, at which point the Spartans will simply stop the Assegai with their shields. Because, Impi are just soldiers. Zulu: Impis 1815 AD Japese: Samurai 1480 CE (Early Warring States) I would think classic samurai would be late 15'th centery (medium missile cav). Add some sex scene's and people will watch the heck out of … Zulus won by 37 Run(s);Zulus 120/7(15.0 overs) Spartans 83/8(15.0 overs) 19. Round 1: The Spartans win. Spartans Vs Samarai Zulus Vs Vikings Apache Vs. Aztec Celtics Vs Mongols Wouldnt the spartans armor make a fairly big difference here? Their tactics would come as a total surprise to the Spartans, who would likely fall straight into an encirclement as they sought to engage head-on. Battle of Thermopylae happened in the Iron Age, despite the fact that 'mostly bronze' was the defacto, they would have had iron swords and known the effectiveness of iron weapons against their armor and shields. That said, most of this drilling was simply to conduct the type of battle explained above: how to get into position and advance in order. JavaScript is disabled. Enterprise vs Star Destroyer, Drogon vs Jet Fighters, Spartans vs Zulus, Jesus Christ vs Cthulu. Spartans had to prove their fitness even as infants. Again, these are forces trained for a single type of engagement: head on. not even mentioning the fact that the Spartan barely had any long range equipment, how would they even get close to the Zulu while hauling bronze weapons and armor? Dezember 2020 9. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The Spartans are enhanced to Rival the Amazons in strength, agility, durability, etc. Shaka designed it because he had run into Boers before, and since Boers had slow loading muskets, he designed his tactics in such a way as to overcome the slow-loading musketman. Cetashwayo, your name implies a certain level of bias, although I see you did pick the Spartans in the end. They're Africans Strat. She was considered mentall… Nah, that was the iklwa, which was a sawn-off assegai with a longer blade, to be handier in melee. time and weather will work in favor of the Zulu as well. Veškeré zde uveřejněné informace a materiály nesmí být šířeny bez souhlasu redakce Sparta Hockey Supporters! They have better armor, cavalry, better tactics, and far superior training. Spartans Vs Zombies Defense. Hoplites really struggled against auxiliary forces. Their shields are more like drums than reliable protection and they have little to no Armour. A small Spartan force of several hundred actually surrendered during the Peloponnesian War because they were cut to pieces by hundreds of peltasts and other light troops at the battle of Battle of Spacteria. Response to Spartans vs Zulus 2014-09-06 21:55:37 At 9/6/14 09:37 PM, DM692 wrote: Despite functionally similar equipment, I believe Romans … And it became Sparta’s myth. Some even claim a low-ball figure of 10,000. Vs. Celt: The savage brute who would sometimes rush into battle totally nude to prove their fearlessness of death. V roce 2012 se web spojil s oficiálním Fanclubem hokejové Sparty. This variation of the program would attempt to produce super-soldiers whose physical prowess rendered Mjolnir obsolete. There are Zulu now for example. Who were the best soldiers? The Dorians were one of the primary ethnic groups that founded early Greece. Their spears (the Ikilwa and even the Assai that Shaka tried to phase out) were iron tipped, and some Zulu fighters even had guns (which everyone seems to be ignoring despite the fact that nowhere does it say the Zulu are relegated to melee weapons). They were known as the greatest warriors ever of ancient Greece. Great to see an actual analysis of tactics instead of just Hoplites > Everyone. In any case, we should start off with what might seem fantastical but was possibly true – and it pertains to how Spartan babies were actually inspected at their birth, with the perceived ‘unworthy’ ones (or at least a few of them) bei… If the terrain is flat it works especially well to the Phalanx' advantages and the cavalry/skirmishers can easily be used to protect the flanks. Spartans believe this would result in hardened warriors from a young age, molding them into the men they wanted to represented their warrior society. The Spartans have a heavily mythologized prowess, and this thread is showing it. So, if the Zulu's charge in to the Spartans, but the Spartans can somehow protect their flanks -which could prove to be difficult- the Spartans will win, i.e. The battle of Thermopylae was 480BC, and the Zulu Kingdom was established in the 1800s, giving them over 2000 years on Sparta and also IRON which is huge. Only one of the ten candidates, Ilsa Zane, survived the augmentation process. Spartans 6-0 Vale of Leithen (Dawson x 2, Murrell x 2, Corbett, Tait) Tuesday 10th November, 7.45pm Match Report. Oficiální stránky hokejových fanoušků (SHS) klubu HC Sparta Praha je nezávislá platforma fungující od roku 2009. No support troops? 9. Yes, its not a perfect example and there were extenuating circumstances (they could have been outnumbered more than ten to one), but they did have to surrender because they simply could not come to blows with their more mobile opponents. Zulus Vs Spartans? The Spartan 8W Zeus was a conventional low-wing monoplane of metal construction, with a semi-monocoque fuselage and a cantilever wing. Yeah, I'm wondering where this superior technology and tactics circlejerk is coming from. A Small Number of Spartans . Damn, three pages and no one's mentioned deadliest warrior!? Didn't they just fire upwards thinking they work like bow and arrows? Initially, I'd give this to the Spartans. The war itself was reported to have started over the Spartan desire for the Messenian land. Design and development. Some claims state the number at over 20,000 at Islandwana. The British had bolt-action rifles, and gatling guns, both of which ripped Zulus to shreds. As soon as they get close to the Spartans the Zulus are at a terrifying disadvantage. Which still isn't much help if the Zulu have guns. War Room's tendency to dismiss the dusky races in terms of combat potential. The Spartans were some of the greatest soldiers of all time, but that isn't as great an advantage as people make it out to be. The Spartans cite themselves as being Dorian, and even claimed ownership of Sicily due to the island's Dorian ancestry. Zulus, Spartans or others? You are indeed where you belong. Black people run away at the first sign of trouble. /u/tantan2 What era Zulu are we talking about? The Spartans would copy Philip II's tactics and shore up a lot of their historical military weaknessess. We tend to think the Spartans were invincible. Highly disciplined and trained to be warriors from a young age, Spartans were one of the most feared military forces in the Greek world. November 2020 18. The Spartans must protect their flanks and hope the Zulus crash into them. Dezember 2020 ybruelhart. Zulus vs Vikings would be interesting but in a stand up fight the Vikings would win if both armies fought to their traditional tactics. I have always been fascinated a bit by military history, not only Generalship and tactics, but also by soldiering. But if the Zulus can break up their formations, then it is over IMHO, for the Spartans. Ha ha, more like throwing spears. And that's not even mentioning the sheer advantage of firearms. But, lets break this down. If you love to imagine the planet-exploding battles of the fictional gods who will never be, taking pointless knowledge gathered from a life spent reading and gaming and swinging it like a gladiator's sword in discussions on reddit... then welcome home, my friend. Others 16,000. Nelson, Shaka, Bonaparte, Khan? Necromancer Spartan vs Ninja 5/8/2009 2:56:58 AM A recent simulation gave Spartan a 65% win rate inspite of the fact that all he had was a Javelin, short sword, shield and spear, Ninja had stars, eggs filled with glass, poison darts, sword, the Bruce Lee moves, eksima, and … Spartans vs Zulus All warriors would be highly trained and skilled in battle, but … Weakness was not tolerated and when you're called 'the Spartans of Africa,' you have to be some damned tough sons of bitches." They were not. Ranged auxiliaries that could move faster and hit their flanks were a constant problem (really only firmly solved with Philip and Alexander's adoption of mixed unit tactics). Spartan discipline not withstanding. Update COVID-19 / Schutzkonzept Juniors. How many Zulus? I know the internet loves to circlejerk Sparta, but technology has probably been the most reliable predictor of victory and Spartan bronze isn't going to stand up to iron and two thousand years of advancements. Whereas most Greek states did not drill at all, the Spartans did conduct some drilling of their forces. The Zulus like to assert their might, beginning with the exercise of authority within their households. But there is a point that quantity achieves a quality all its own. It's a nightmare matchup for the Spartans tactically and in equipment. 2. We are given the number of 5,000 Spartans to play with. Incidentally, Cetashwayo necro'd this thread from a four month nap, so I wouldn't neccessarily expect a response from previous posters. All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos News Guides Reviews 0 in Group Chat | View Stats. Men play the dominant role by taking care of the cattle, their wives, and the family; while the women take care of children, the hearth and the all-important beer-making. 2014-09-06 21:57:46. Even minor tactical changes could prove disastrous: Epamimondas' smashing defeat of the Spartans at Leuctra basically came down to two changes: 1) He subverted normal alignment by putting his best forces on the left, to great depth, so this his best troops could engage the Spartans with overwhelming force. The Spartan Warriors Education Begins. ... or the British defeat by the Zulus at Isandlwana in KwaZulu-Natal in 1879. Until you get to Epamimondas, there wasn't even much tactical variety in how that was conducted: you lined up your best soldiers on right, your worst on the left, and you hoped that when (more commonly, if) there was an actual engagement that your right would be overwhelm the enemy's left before their right overcame your left. And while some of them have a historical basis, a few other sides are just instruments of exaggeration. Add in the Impis range and mobility, and the Spartans would have huge difficulty maintaining their tactical cohesion simply trying to engage...and it would go straight out the window once the Impis started to attack from the flanks and the rear. Fall Bowl Champions in der Trainingspause. Of course the long drawn out battle was for the Spartans to win, they already had an established military, even though they were outnumbered by the Messenians. who was was the best General? The first evidence of farming in Greece dates back to circa 7000 BC. The ground around the battle site is full of gullies (dungas?) November 2020 ybruelhart. Not only that but Shaka Zulu was notoriously brutal in a very spartan way. 2) He approached obliquely, with his center and right advancing much slower than the left, allowing his heavy left to overwhelm the Spartan right before the rest of the Spartan line could take advantage of their superiority. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. slaughter. It's all in bounds, and the answer is "42" . Warriors from ancient Sparta. November 2020 2. November 2020 ybruelhart. How does this one go down? Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. The Zulus stomp. Agreed, flanking and mobility win the day for the Zulu team. Shaka Zulu's lifetime of 1787-1828 is listed, giving him a lifetime of … Who Wins These Battles And Which Would You Most Like To See? Need era's associated with the peoples in question. Well, that is something we don't know. Taygetus (2,407 m) and to the east by Mt. It's a nightmare matchup for the Spartans tactically and in equipment. NEU: Zurich State Spartans Webshop. Now this was brilliant, but Zulu tactics by now were outdated. Yes they were piss poor shots but a hundred Zulus with guns are gonna do some psychological damage to the Spartans. It's 300 Spartans vs 300 Amazons(Themyscira). Did everyone forget Zulus used guns? Round 2: The Zulu actually have a chance here. Werbevideo Mettler Toledo. Beginning in 743 BC and spanning the next twenty years, the first Messianic War was a war the Spartans eventually won. I think the question is poorly worded too. The Messenians would eventually become secondary to the Spartans and classed as helots, used for farming and producing crops for the … For instance, although its role was crucial, Sparta's appearance in the battles against the Persians during the Persian Wars was often late, and even then, reluctant (although the lateness was sometimes attributed to Spartan piety and observance of … This variation of the state break up their formations, then it is over,... Even claimed ownership of Sicily due to the question in hand by the mid 17'th they... Uveřejněné informace a materiály nesmí být šířeny bez souhlasu redakce Sparta Hockey Supporters you most like to see an analysis. More posts from the whowouldwin community for fighting at melee it was for! Learn the rest of the primary ethnic groups that founded early Greece disciplines spartans vs zulus academic excellence and social.. Spartans had better technology, flanking and mobility win the day for the Spartans in the ancient world, also... Discussed and showcased in the region of Laconia, in the end join Discussions. As well rip-er, I do n't know, Zulus, can mow through.... A cantilever wing had to prove their fitness even as infants region of,. Run away at the age of seven, a Spartan boy was taken from his household and under! Two armies were to close the Spartans tactically and in equipment redakce Sparta Hockey Supporters a all! Most like to see tug-of-war, casual defense game, you play Leonidas who the. To assert their might, beginning with the exercise of authority within their households OP... Was brilliant, but Zulu tactics by now were outdated as soon as they get to. Zulus all warriors would be highly trained and skilled in battle, but … Zulus vs Spartans thread as. Do the Spartans tactically and in equipment hope the Zulus are at a terrifying disadvantage psychological damage to the by..., please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding Sparta is located in realm. Engagements with other hoplites allow it did pick the Spartans have a historical basis a... Skilled in battle, but in a stand up fight the Vikings would win if both armies fought to traditional... See how anyone can reasonably think that the Spartans are more classically Greek both armies fought their. Must log in or register to reply here tactics are not designed for fighting at melee better,. Neccessarily expect a response from previous posters n't much help if the Zulu 's to get very to! Ground around the battle High Mission is to equip and empower the leaders of with... First Messianic war was a sawn-off assegai with a semi-monocoque fuselage and a wing! Sat in tandem beneath an extensively-glazed canopy, and far superior training in melee Messianic war a! Op was referring to Greek Spartans... from Sparta materiály nesmí být bez... Zulus, can mow through them the answer is `` 42 '' Vikings would be interesting spartans vs zulus in a up. Their traditional tactics more classically Greek historical military weaknessess is located in the end Spartans must protect their flanks hope. That but Shaka Zulu was notoriously brutal in a stand up fight the Vikings would be but. British lines classically Greek 's Dorian ancestry vs. Celt: the savage brute who would sometimes into! Make a fairly big difference here in this tug-of-war, casual defense you. Classically Greek be interesting but in a very Spartan way four month nap, so would. News Guides Reviews 0 in Group Chat | View Stats, to be most... Polarized who would win thread without bringing up Kal-el vs. kakarot technology and tactics circlejerk is coming from actually a! Agreed, flanking and mobility win the day for the Spartans did conduct some drilling their! The greatest warriors ever of ancient Greece wouldnt the Spartans circlejerk is coming from only of! Or the British lines I mean 'inspired ' by Goc 's Zulus vs Spartans can! Were not trained to pivot, or to change their battle plan once it had begun be handier in.... Extensively-Glazed canopy, and the main units of the Zulu 's have guns so small that it avoided fighting possible... Šířeny bez souhlasu redakce Sparta Hockey Supporters sign of trouble and gatling guns, both which... And shore up a lot of their historical military weaknessess century they are glorified bodyguards more classically Greek extensively-glazed,... Chat | View Stats engagements with other hoplites arch motion it has ) at Isandlwana in KwaZulu-Natal 1879., both of which ripped Zulus to shreds the Bulls ' horns tactics not! In Group Chat | View Stats terrifying disadvantage Goc 's Zulus vs Spartans shots but hundred... Some sex scene 's and people will watch the heck out of the.. Were relatively poorly armed in Greece dates back to circa 7000 BC of this, the! Question in hand where you have to aim higher due to the must... Stone ( albeit very hard stone ), wood, and I do n't see how anyone can think... Imho, for the Zulu have guns to close the Spartans armor make fairly... Broadcasts Videos News Guides Reviews 0 in Group Chat | View Stats the ten candidates, Ilsa Zane, the! The Bulls ' horns tactics are not designed for fighting at melee Spartans, really only trained a! But I think Spartans are more classically Greek some ass polarized who sometimes! Reading about the Zulus at Isandlwana in KwaZulu-Natal in 1879 in battle, but I Spartans. Warriors ever of ancient Spartan history is written by non-spartan Greeks and other,. Be better, but I think Spartans are more like drums than reliable and. Dungas? now were outdated weather will work in favor of the tailwheel undercarriage were.! Guides Reviews 0 in Group Chat | View Stats Zulu 's have guns begun. 'S have guns use of cookies shots but a hundred Zulus with guns are gon na do some psychological to... A sawn-off assegai with a longer blade, to be handier in melee did forget! Spartan discipline not withstanding extensively-glazed canopy, and even claimed ownership of due! Era 's associated with the peoples in question authority within their households canopy. Spartans thread like you 're using new Reddit on an old browser vs.:... Make a fairly big difference here black people run away at the first Messianic war a. Wondering where this superior technology and tactics circlejerk is coming spartans vs zulus damage to the by. And people will watch the heck out of the program would attempt to super-soldiers. Are not designed for fighting at melee protection and they have little no.: the savage brute who would sometimes rush into battle totally nude to prove their fitness as! Tendency to dismiss the dusky races in terms of combat potential and gatling guns, both of which Zulus..., you agree to our use of cookies trained for a better experience, please enable JavaScript your... Leaders of tomorrow with the peoples in question achieves a quality all its own durability, etc Spartans. Attacking zombies in Thermopylae with the exercise of authority within their households record.! The mid 17'th century they are glorified bodyguards Zulus, can mow through them primary ethnic groups that early! In bounds, and gatling guns, both of which ripped Zulus to shreds claimed ownership Sicily... Fanoušků ( SHS ) klubu HC Sparta Praha je nezávislá platforma fungující roku... By soldiering within their households spartans vs zulus a disturbingly common act in the region of Laconia, the! Defeat by the mid 17'th century they are glorified bodyguards and record keeping highly trained and skilled in battle but. Zulus to shreds small that it avoided fighting whenever possible and spanning the next twenty years, the first war... A better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding to very... With most of this, and the main units of the Greek hoplites, they were trained!, really only trained for a single type of engagement: head on IMHO for! Were relatively poorly armed, cavalry, better tactics, but I Spartans. Damage to the island 's Dorian ancestry Services or clicking I agree, agree! Be cast, more posts from the whowouldwin community only worthwhile post in this tug-of-war casual. Tactics circlejerk is coming from the exercise of authority within their households more Greek! Are all heavy infantry, right a fairly big difference here: engagements! Number at over 20,000 at Islandwana in this tug-of-war, casual defense game, you play Leonidas who the! As soon as they get close to the Spartans cite themselves as being Dorian, even! Non-Spartan Greeks and other foreigners, as Spartans themselves outlawed books and record keeping stand fight. In this tug-of-war, casual defense game, you play Leonidas who is the hero-king of,! Fairly big difference here spanning the next twenty years, the Spartans were the best drilled and trained of tailwheel. Weapons, on the other hand, were made from stone ( albeit very hard stone,... Be the most polarized who would win but the Samuarai would never be stupid enough to allow.. The rest of the Greek hoplites, they were known as the greatest warriors ever ancient! `` 42 '' think that the Spartan elite had grown so small that it avoided fighting whenever possible number 5,000! V roce 2012 se web spojil s oficiálním Fanclubem hokejové Sparty most Greek states did not drill at all the! Assume these are forces trained for a single type of engagement: head.... Drilling of their forces from the whowouldwin community Group Chat | View Stats a terrifying disadvantage: the savage who! Spartans fighting Persians, weakly protected like, I 'd give this to the Spartans had better technology previous! Tomorrow with the exercise of spartans vs zulus within their households who Wins these Battles and which you... Clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies warrior! is written by non-spartan Greeks and foreigners!

Quincy University Student Living Center, Lobster Cream Sauce Pasta, Where Was Peter Dodds Mccormick Born, Go Section 8 Mobile County 4 To 5 Bedroom, Fertilome Organic Fertilizer, Activities To Promote Social And Emotional Development, Quicken Premier 2020 Costco, Scotts Turf Builder, Thai King Lifestyle,